Church is Messy

Church Is Messy, 09-16-2026 Ep151
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Svea: Good morning, Rick. We are back with Church is Messy, and can you believe it is the final week of the End series?

Rick: I know. We've made it to the end of the End. Last week-

Svea: The end of the End ...

Rick: you said, , that you wanted me to make the series longer, and I was like, "No way." Yeah. Because it feels technical, and it felt like it really took a lot of work to craft each sermon and to get each individual one- I wish we

Svea: had-

across the finish line ... so much more time for this.

Rick: Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a great subject, and there are so many unanswered questions and, and things that it would just be fun to sit around and wonder about. Uh, but this is the week I did find myself thinking, "I wish I had at least one more week."

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: And maybe, some of that will come out as we talk and meander through this together.

Svea: Well, I've got four pages worth of things I'd love to talk about, so- That's a lot ... no shortage of content.

Rick: That is ... I am ready to share with you my opinions.

Svea: I don't doubt it. Well, okay, I'm gonna push you on something you started off with- Mm-hmm

because, uh-

Rick: A little provocation ...

Svea: there might have been some people who were ready to pull out their phones and send an email to the elders- Our

Rick: pastor's a heretic ...

Svea: when you- Yeah ... started off by saying, "I hope I don't go to heaven, and I hope you don't either."

Rick: Yeah. I was hoping their ears would perk up and lean in, and where is this guy going?

Well, I really-

Svea: So you better explain what you meant by that ... I really do,

Rick: I really do mean that. Hopefully it made sense in the context of the sermon. One day, Jesus is returning, and heaven is coming to Earth. And if I don't go to heaven, that means that I'm alive when all of that unfolds and He returns, and I'd love to see it, and I'd love other people to see it, too.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Right? Now, it wouldn't ... The other thing, like my plan B, is just to be a really old dude and to die peacefully in my sleep, maybe sitting in a tree stand somewhere- Oh ... waiting for a big buck to walk by. That would be a wonderful way to go. But, um, no. Maybe

Svea: for you, not for whoever finds you. Oh, dear.

Rick: I wasn't thinking about that. I was just thinking about me, Svea. I was thinking about my experience.

Svea: All right,

Rick: well. So, um, but, uh, no, I think it would be really neat just to, like, be, you know, doing whatever we're doing during the day, and all of a sudden, however it happens, it happens, and Jesus returns, and we get to experience all-

Svea: That

Rick: would be incredible

of just the glory of His coming. Yeah, I'd love to, love to be a part of it. Do you want to

Svea: tell

Rick: us- So that's what I

Svea: meant ... on what day that's gonna happen?

Rick: I l- I will ... Listen, I, I sh- I only share that with people who make a donation- ... to my private fund.

Svea: Oh, man, you took my joke and made it worse. Yeah,

Rick: yeah. No, who knows when it's gonna be.

We don't know when it's gonna be. That ... The point isn't to, uh, isn't to predict. You remember that. Of course. It's to be prepared.

Svea: Be prepared. That's

Rick: right. Yes.

Svea: What about this idea, though, that we talk so naturally- Mm-hmm ... about going to heaven when we die, and the vision that you were casting in this message wasn't specifically talking about what happens when we die if we were to die today-

Rick: Correct ...

Svea: but is about our eventual home- So let's- ... and what's happening when Jesus returns.

So can we talk a little bit about what happens- Yeah ... if we die today?

Rick: So I put up that, that imagery. I'm here on Earth. I live my life. I do good things, I do bad things. Maybe I trust in Jesus, maybe I don't, and then I die, and depending on whether or not I trusted in Jesus and faith depends on whether or not I go to heaven or hell, and, uh, hell is, you know, in Revelation 21, it describes it as the second death.

It's eternally separated from God. We often use the term hell to, to describe what, what that existence is, right? So there is a measure of truth in that. So if, uh, Svea, if you or I were to pass away today and Jesus has not returned yet, then because we are in Christ, we will go to be with Him where He is, but ultimately, He's gonna come back.

So you're wondering, well, what, what happens, like, five minutes after we die?

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Rick: I don't really know. It is my understanding... And let me just be clear, and there's no time to get into this in this sermon, and you, you are well aware. You're a smarty pants. That there are lots of different, there are different views, and there are really, really good-hearted, very intelligent Christian scholars who have different takes, and some people think that there's kind of like this soul sleep- Mm

and, uh, that you're just in this kind of state of limbo. Maybe it's like being spiritually in a coma. Mm-hmm. I, uh, I'm not trying to downplay it. I'm just trying to, trying to visualize what it might be like, and then at the return of Jesus, you would be resurrected and full participant. Others, and this is the camp that I am, that I'm in, is I take very seriously and quite literally what Jesus said to the guy hanging next to Him on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise."

I think I'm also influenced by, , the parable that Jesus told of the rich man and Lazarus. Mm-hmm. And there's actually some debate as to whether or not that is a parable or Jesus was just actually giving a quite literal- Mm-hmm ... account of something that, that happened. That's for another conversation. But that there is this reality that we step into on the other side.

Mm-hmm. And let's just talk about followers of Jesus, that we would be with Him where He is, and wherever He is, that is heaven and that real, quite literal, even physical space is coming here eventually. But if you were to die or I were to die right now, because Jesus hasn't returned, we would go and be a part of that.

That's my understanding, with the caveat that there are very intelligent, Jesus-loving scholars who have a bit of a different view.

Svea: Sure. But really, the focus of this message- Mm-hmm ... wasn't on the immediacy of what happens right now, but where we'll be for eternity.

Rick: That's right. Like, what is heaven going to be like?

What is the big picture? Where is- to the story going, and that's really where

Svea: we wanted to- And I'm so glad that the vision isn't what I had as a child- Well, tell me more

Rick: about that ...

Svea: of this, like, idea that we're just gonna be sitting on the clouds, playing- Yeah ... a harp, or- That's right ... I remember someone talking about, and it was probably from the pictures in Revelation, about this idea that we're gonna be just standing around, singing praises to God all the time, and- Mm-hmm

I mean, I was a kid who went to church choir, but even though I enjoyed it, I didn't- I like music ... wanna go to choir for eternity.

Rick: Yeah, music is great. Yeah, but we're not sitting around or standing around, singing songs for all eternity. Uh, there's gonna be feasting. There's going to be, there's gonna be work, but like the good, life-giving kind of work.

You jump to the next chapter. We're in Revelation 21. Revelation 22 talks about that we will reign with him for all eternity. That sounds like leadership responsibility. Mm. I would love for my leadership responsibility to be something like a game warden, in, in some, Yellowstone or the Black Hills, or like whatever it looks like.

I would love to be involved in that. I don't know what my job's gonna be. I know it won't be a pastor.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: My current gig will be- There's a few- ... unnecessary ...

Svea: a few of us with careers that are gonna be looking for new work, both, uh, myself and- Yeah ... uh, my, my physician husband.

That's right.

Rick: Our services- Unnecessary ... will not be needed there. Unnecessary, yeah.

Svea: That's right. Game warden sounds kind of cool, though.

Rick: So this is what I would hope, is that people wouldn't just stop with the sermon, is that they would sit down and really read through Revelation 21, and read into Revelation 22.

There's even more that we didn't, obviously we just don't have time to get to in a- Sure ... in a single sermon.

Svea: But I want you to talk- Yeah ... a little bit more about this picture- Mm-hmm ... that scripture really does, uh, lay out a case for all throughout the Bible- Mm-hmm ... of that, for eternity, it's not that the earth will just go away- No, it's not disposable

and that this is over- Yeah ... but that the earth is going to be renewed. Yes. That there will be a, a renewed earth- Yep ... and, uh, that heaven will be here on earth, and that that picture of what we can imagine it to be like- Mm ... is going to be present here. It won't be just some crazy, ethereal, alternative dimension existence but that it will be like living here on earth with the best of everything that's here.

Rick: You have a trip coming up.

You're going to Banff.

Svea: That's right, for our- And you've been there- ... wedding anniversary ...

Rick: you've been there before.

Svea: We went there on our honeymoon.

Rick: What are some of the locales that you're most looking forward to when you go to Banff?

Svea: Oh, it's the most beautiful mountains I've ever- Yeah

been in. Yeah. Just these majestic mountains and- Mm ... lakes that are melted glaciers, so it's kind of a teal water. Mm-hmm. It's just incredible.

Rick: I think that'll be there.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: I think that'll be there. It won't be the only thing but, uh, I think it'll be... I think that place will be there, and you'll get to enjoy that.

And I wish that I could say more. I wish I had the ability to say more. I'm kind of at the, I'm at the, I'm at the end of my rope as far as, as my capacity to imagine and describe. But all the places that we love And all the places that we've gone to and we've ever said, "I wonder what it looked like before," and fill in the blank with before it was scarred, before, before there was a fire, before before pollution- Mm-hmm

um, before trash was strewn about. I love going to West Africa. Our church has a couple of partnerships across the pond over there in Guinea and in Ghana, and there are these beautiful green rolling hills- Mm ... and mountains and banana fields. And and then there are wide open kinda plains area.

And as is common in countries that struggle economically, they don't have a trash disposal system like we do. Mm-hmm. They, they just don't have a really reliable way to deal with their garbage. And so you find garbage all over the place, and I just long for the ability to see it with all of the trash removed.

And in heaven I will. Yeah. When heaven comes to earth for all eternity, we'll get to, we'll get to enjoy that-

Svea: Yeah ...

Rick: in a way that is pristine and exactly right. Yeah. And so these are some of the things that I look forward to. And of course every relationship that we have will be perfectly mended and full of delight and free from anxiety.

Do you know what it's like to hang out with someone and you have a good time, but you're kind of second guessing, "Where do I stand with this person?" Mm-hmm.

Svea: Mm-hmm.

Rick: You will never have that feeling again.

And wrapped up in all of that is the unhindered filling of the Holy Spirit, and we will actually be where Jesus is.

That is heaven, and it's gonna be right here.

Svea: I love that picture. That, that is so compelling.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: Why is it, though, that I don't think I was exposed to this reality that Scripture teaches, that heaven is here on Earth, until I was in seminary? Hmm. And I was hearing that from people, uh, over the weekend and even since then, that were saying, "Boy, this is kind of a new concept for me.

I thought heaven was this other place," and, uh, and hadn't ever really been exposed in a strong way to this idea that heaven is coming- Mm-hmm ... here to Earth.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: Why does this feel like it's a little bit of a best-kept secret?

Rick: I'll do my best to describe why I think it is, but of course, I could be wrong.

I wasn't around when you were going to church, and and I wasn't there to hear how the, the pastors who you sat under talked about it, or the Sunday school teachers who led the classes you were in, how they talked about it, and other people. I know what my experience was, and it's possible that my church experience was very similar in some ways to others.

A couple of weeks ago, we talked about four major views that have shaped... Eschatology is the theological word, but that's the study of the, the end times. Uh, the oldest is historic premillennialism. It's this, the idea that one day Jesus is gonna return, and there's a literal thousand-year reign here on the Earth.

That was the most popular up until about 300 AD. A little bit before 300 AD, uh, this other view started to take over, and it's called amillennialism, and it sees the thousand-year reign of Jesus as a very real thing, but that number is symbolic, and he is reigning now from Heaven, and one day it'll be ultimately fulfilled when he returns and Heaven comes to Earth and all of that.

That's probably, um, the most widely held view throughout all of Christian history and around the world. And again being the oldest view doesn't make something right. Being the most popular view doesn't make something right. Being the newest view doesn't make something wrong. These are just... It's just

Svea: kinda-

Rick: Just theories.

Mm-hmm. It's just theories, yeah. The third view is called postmillennialism. I feel like I stumbled over that postmil- Do you wanna go p- po- p- Postmillennialism. Millennialism. Yeah, so that just really rolled off the tongue, didn't it? Um, and so this really emerged after the Protestant Reformation in Europe, and it's very similar to amillennialism except that it sees, like, the church growing in greater and greater prominence, and, like, the whole world kinda tends to come under the umbrella of the gospel and following Jesus before he returns.

And then the fourth, and it is the newest, it's only about 200 years old, it's a global minority view, is dispensationalism. Dispensationalism is the view that there is going to be a great tribulation, um, that the Battle of Armageddon is a literal thing, that there's going to be an antichrist that, that comes and fools people and kinda takes over the world.

And somewhere, somewhere around that tribulation, either right at the beginning before it starts, in the middle, or at the end, there's going to be the idea of a rapture. A lot of people believe that this view has always been around. It's only about 200 years old, that there's gonna be a trumpet blow, and people go up into the, to the sky.

This is the Left Behind book series. This is the movie from the '70s, Thief in the Night. That view was very popular in the United States in the 1970s, '80s, and '90s. Now- In that view, a lot of people emphasize cataclysmic things, destructive things, sensational things. And whether it was intentionally communicated or unintentionally communicated, what was communicated is that this world will be burned up, destroyed, and discarded, and we're gonna go off to heaven.

Now, the scholars who promoted this view, I don't think that's what they intended to communicate, but that is what is received, and that's kinda just what got lodged in the popular thought of church people. Mm-hmm. And so that's why I, that's why I think it's there. But again, I could be slightly off on that.

Or majorly off on that. That's just my-

Svea: That's, that's a good recap, though- Okay ... of these, these-

Rick: All right. That's helpful?

Svea: Yeah. These-

Rick: So does that make sense?

Svea: I think it does, and it makes sense that that would contribute to it- Mm-hmm ... when there was kind of a framework of understanding- Mm-hmm ... that many of us grew up in, either ourselves or with the pastors who discipled us- Now, there-

in thinking that way.

Rick: There's another wrinkle, and this one might feel a tad uncomfortable, but let's, take truth seriously. Part of American history is chattel slavery, and part of how Christian church folks were engaged in that and able to hold onto their faith and hold onto this despicable practice at the same time, how were they able to live in that profound dissonance, is there were some who promoted the idea of spirituality in a way that it trumps the physical.

Mm-hmm. And what's most important is what happens in someone's soul- Mm-hmm ... not necessarily what happens here, uh, in our bodies or even, uh, in the world around us, 'cause one day we're gonna go off to heaven. And that helped frame a perverted view of Christianity, but a view nonetheless, that allowed people to maintain a sense of Christian dignity while participating in in an economy that was based on robbing people of dignity- Mm-hmm

and freedom. And so that is a little bit there. That's in our, that's in our residue. I I was raised Southern Baptist and went to Southern Baptist churches growing up. I'm ordained Southern Baptist. I went to a Southern Baptist college, a Southern Baptist seminary. I come out of a denomination that has since repented of all that and publicly acknowledged that, but it was built on the idea that slaveholders should be able to engage in missions and ministry.

And the, the Southern Baptist Convention launched specifically to allow that because the nomination, that had been present at the time did not allow slaveholders to engage in missions. Mm-hmm. So I come out of a Christian tradition that is specifically about preserving chattel slavery.

And you can repent of that and turn away from that, which they have, and that should be, taken seriously and acknowledged, the residue of the thinking that was there in the beginning will kinda seep down.

Seep, seep down into the fibers of the culture and some of the practices, and it takes a lot of work to undo that.

So I think that's part, I think that's a variable, an ingredient in the soup as well. How big? I don't know. But when you put those two things together, it's not surprising that Christians in America have this sense, well, we just go off to heaven, right? Instead of being able to see the full biblical story.

Well, yeah, some people go off to heaven, but eventually heaven is coming to Earth, and this is where it's gonna be for all of

Svea: eternity. So let me just make sure I'm- Yeah ... understanding what you're saying. Mm-hmm. 'Cause you're talking about how that influences the way that we might see- Mm-hmm ... this as a completely disengaged experience- That's

Speaker 3: right

Svea: from what is to come. It's almost like- Both in the way that we regard bodies- It's, it- ... and life and reality and-

Rick: You're doing a great job of, of summarizing that, and this is the kind of thing that the Apostle Paul was leading Timothy to stand against in the letter of 1 Timothy. And we see it in, um, I think we see it in the first epistle that John wrote, and some other places in the New Testament.

It sounds a lot like Gnosticism.

That essentially what happens in this world and with your body isn't that big of a deal. It's more of the spiritual stuff. And we have a tendency to bifurcate those two things. Isn't that a fun word? Bifurca- And you pronounced it correctly, too. I hope I, I hope, I hope I, I hope I used it, I hope I used it right.

Now, um, now, if anyone's out there thinking, "Well, that's dumb. That's silly. How could people do that?" You know, we kinda do that stuff all the time now.

We kinda live our own wa- it's... Let me, I don't wanna, like, accuse people. I'm just saying, isn't it easy to kinda live our own way, to go to work, to go to school, to kinda do our stuff, and then kinda recenter on Sunday, and then go, kinda go- Yeah

live our life, and then kinda recenter on Sunday? And we treat them like they're separate instead of seeing them all integrated all the time, that a true biblical understanding is there's not the physical and the spiritual, there's just life.

Svea: Yeah. So one of the things I love most about as I've studied this idea of heaven- really existing here as a continuation of Earth- Mm-hmm ... of the best of Earth, the best of creation, creation as God intended for it to be- Yeah ... is that there is a continuity- Mm-hmm ... of what we experience. Mm-hmm. And so that it's not that we're having to envision a whole different way of being, but that we still get to anticipate eating a great meal- Oh, yeah

and enjoying good friendships and- So Pastor Ian- ... and hiking in beautiful places.

Rick: Pastor Ian and I were having this debate. We were going out to scunt, to scunt. We were to scout some hunting property. I was struggling. I need another cup of coffee. You

Svea: need coffee?

Rick: Yeah. I do. Um, so we were going out to scout some hunting property together, and we were debating, like, wouldn't it be great if there was hunting in, in heaven?

And they're like, "I just don't think that there is." And yet there are verses that talk about, like Isaiah talks about the We're feasting on meat in heaven with him. Mm. Right? And so- That's precious ... it's like, where does that come from? Is it like, is it like Star Trek: The Next Generation? Is there like, does Jesus give us like a synthesizer?

Do we get a re- a replicator? A replicator. Yes. Yeah, and just kind of like replicate. Like

Svea: the ultimate nerd card.

Rick: Y- yeah. It's just, Earl Grey, hot. You know, is it just, is it replicated, or is it farm-raised, or if I was a good enough pastor, would Jesus let me go hunt? I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know, but I-

Speaker 3: Your reward for being a good pastor is to kill animals?

Rick: Really? You just said it in the most unflattering- ... uncharitable way, Svea. I, listen, I don't know. I don't know, but it's fun to think about, isn't it?

Speaker 3: It is fun to

Rick: think about. But there's gonna be, there's gonna be amazing real-life stuff.

I think that we'll be involved in building cities.

I think that we'll be involved in gardening. I think we'll be involved in a lot of the things that are hinted at and described in chapter one and two of Genesis- Mm-hmm ... with the original, uh, responsibilities, where how much technology is gonna be in heaven?

I don't really know. Will there be, uh, the Augusta National golf course? Maybe. Mm. And the greens fee will be zero because Jesus paid it all. I mean, just go, just go and enjoy.

Svea: Yeah. But can you imagine the literature that could be written or the songs that could be written or the art or just the enjoyment of creation and nature?

Yeah,

Rick: so this is where I wish I could have had time to slow down. So I talked about, all the things you do to cultivate beauty right now, it matters.

Don't... So that's like art. That's writing songs. That's writing poetry. That's sculpting. That's, that's crafts. That's... Don't you think those kinds of things are going to continue?

Worship is not simply singing. Worship is living in such a way that we delight in- Yeah ... the glory of God, and we wanna make Him look good. Yeah. And so in a life-giving, perfect, pristine way, we will be doing that. So I think all of those things are gonna continue.

Svea: So then- See, that is so much more exciting a picture than just sitting on a cloud with a harp.

Rick: Absolutely.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: Well, you get to fly.

Svea: Without the airplane. Hopefully. Wouldn't that be cool?

Rick: I don't know. Or with it. Like, I don't know what level of technology is- I don't know ... uh, so are we gonna be-

Svea: It's fun to imagine, though ...

Rick: do we have to stay here? Do we get to explore other things in this incredible universe that God has made?

Svea: So a question I hear a lot is will we look like ourselves, and if so, at what age?

Rick: Yeah. Somebody, somebody asked me that sincerely, and it's a great question, uh, will we be the age that- That we die at? ... that we were when we die? Yeah. And I'm like, man, if that's the case, some people are just out of luck.

And I don't know exactly what we're gonna look like. I think we'll be recognizable humans. When you read a- in, in Revelation about all the people, uh, singing around the throne of Jesus, that John, uh, recognizes people from every tribe, nation, tongue. And so I think our ethnic distinctiveness continues.

It's a permanent part of God's mosaic- Mm-hmm ... uh, for humanity. And so, I think we'll look like ourselves, but exactly right. And like I said, I hope that means I'm a tad taller and with a six-pack.

Svea: All right. Well, we'll hope that.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: How do you see this picture of the continuity of the best things on Earth and the best things of God's creation continuing in heaven, helping us to see the value in adopting a mindset to this chapter of life when it- we're about restoring- Sure

creation, not trying to escape from it?

Rick: Number one, recognizing it is that it's always important. And so if it's always important, it's important now.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: If it's always important, and it's always gonna be important, then it's important now. But let's understand what the importance is and isn't. It's not important because if we do it good enough, we can bring heaven to Earth.

No. It's we do it because we are citizens of the kingdom of heaven, and we know that kingdom is coming to Earth. It's not because we are in control, it's because we want to contribute from who we are, and we wanna contribute according to what our purpose is, and we wanna contribute in a way that's motivated by the love of Christ.

I... Here anew, the love of Christ compels us. And the things that Jesus loves and the things that He values, they should be things that we love- Mm ... and we value.

Svea: Mm-hmm.

Rick: And so if these are things that Jesus cares about, and He's always gonna care about 'em, then they should be flowing out of us right now. Not because if we do it good enough, we can, cause Jesus to return earlier, or we can turn heaven into Earth.

That's n- that's not it. We want to live authentically out of who we are, who we love, and the purpose we've been given. Mm. So that's why we do it.

Even if there's no hope for success. I wanna pursue justice knowing that there is no perfect justice in this life. I wanna pursue goodness knowing that I don't think that I have the ability to bring perfect goodness to anything.

I wanna pursue truth and I wanna share the truth knowing that I can't answer every question, and that's okay. I wanna cultivate beauty knowing that it can't bring about perfect beauty. I wanna care for this environment knowing that it is beyond me, and it's probably beyond all of our collective efforts to make this exactly as it should be.

But that doesn't come because I believe that our collective efforts or ability are strong enough. It comes from the love of Jesus, and knowing who I am, and the purpose He's given. And He values this, so I value this, and heaven is coming to Earth, and I wanna live authentically as though I truly do believe that's real.

That's what's behind it all.

Svea: I think one of the most powerful images- Mm ... from the message was the picture that you put up- Mm ... of the two people sitting- Yeah ... on a bench right next- Yeah ... to a playground with absolute rubble and destruction behind them.

Rick: Clearly, a bomb or a missile had gone off and- Yeah

yeah. And it's some beautiful place, some place for life and joy and just ordinary good things, has been scarred.

Svea: And it illustrated so well the idea that we're living in this kind of now and the not yet.

Where there's still beauty- ... in this world now. Mm-hmm. There's still goodness.

Mm-hmm. There's still justice, but as you're just saying, it's not the perfect expression of that. No. That it one day will be. Correct. And we're still living in the shadow of everything that's broken- Mm-hmm ... behind us and around us. Can you talk a little bit about God's work and how He's seeking to redeem us, to sanctify us- Yeah

now- Yeah ... and yet we're still waiting in this not yet for- Yeah ... heaven to come?

Rick: So here's something that didn't make it off the cutting room floor this is my best attempt at trying to un- trying to understand that. I want you to imagine a dad who has owned a, a sports car, maybe an old Mustang, since he was a teenager.

And, uh, he's, he's invested in it. And now he's got a son who's a teenager. Mm-hmm. His son is 16, and and they, they wash the car together they change the oil together. The, the dad is teaching the son how to take care of it. And the dad lets the son drive it when they're together.

Dad's going off on a business trip, and he just says to his son, "Listen, when I get back we're gonna go on a road trip together, and you're ... I'm gonna let you drive the whole way, but uh, just be patient. This is, this car's got some power. I don't want you to take it off by your- by yourself, but I'll be back in a week, and, uh, we're gonna take this trip together."

Dad comes home from the business trip. The car is mangled in the driveway. It's been dropped off by a wrecker. Clearly, his son could not could not wait, gave into temptation, took it out for a spin, wrecked. What does a good dad do? Does a good dad prioritize, I'm going to fix the broken car, or does a good dad go and first address-

What's broken with his son?

I think a good dad goes and addresses his son, makes sure his son's okay-

Svea: Yeah ...

Rick: and then has to address what is clearly broken trust in the relationship. And that's got to be restored first.

And then the car will be restored after that. So I think that's- Oh, that's

Svea: good

Rick: I think that's what's going on here. God has focused on us first and our relationship with Him and being restored to Him, and it's inside out first, and then the world around us, and even our bodies, that restoration is coming next.

Svea: That's good. Yeah. That seems so in line with the character of God, to care about us first- Mm-hmm

if we're the ultimate of His- Yeah ... creation. Yeah. That when all of creation is broken, that He would prioritize restoring us first.

Rick: Mm-hmm.

Svea: And then the rest of creation is coming along too

Rick: with that. Could you imagine what it would be like to be that son, and to be ignored by the father, and watch him only invest in the car?

Svea: Yeah. In- But with- ... incredibly devaluing.

Rick: Yeah. Yeah.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: As much as God values this world and this creation that He has made, and He's going to restore it all, He prioritized restoring us first.

Let that, I mean, really let that hit.

Svea: Yeah. That is beautiful- Mm-hmm ... when you let yourself just really go there.

Rick: Mm-hmm.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: Absolutely.

Svea: So as we wrap up and we think about kind of where this is headed, with this beautiful vision of heaven coming here to Earth, this gives us lots of rich material for our imagination- Mm-hmm ... to feast on. But how does it affect us in the here and now? Yeah. How should it impact the way that we're living our life this week- Yeah

as we think about the ultimate that we have waiting for us- Yeah ... in heaven?

Rick: Yeah. So the, the three things that I wanted to shine a spotlight on from this past weekend is, number one, there are gonna be times that you, that you grieve. There, there's been a number of funerals around here lately, and- Mm-hmm

um, I spoke at, at a funeral. You did the, you did the graveside, uh, for that funeral. Another friend of mine buried his father this past, um, weekend, and we know that there more are coming. And then there's there's just hardship, right? You know, maybe, maybe we're grieving alongside friends who are, who are facing something, or maybe there's financial difficulty.

Um, maybe there's something with kids. There, there's just, there's a nonstop train coming of just obstacles, adversity. And then grieve it. Grieve it honestly. Don't pretend that it's not there. Don't minimize it. Don't baptize it in religious language and stuff your emotions. Grieve it. Face it. Grieve it honestly, but not hopelessly.

I think it's 1 Thessalonians 4:13, "We don't grieve as those who have no hope." Yeah. We have hope. And I think the way that we said it this past weekend is the promise of Revelation 21 that all tears are gonna be wiped away, it doesn't mean that this isn't no big deal. It just means that our tears are not permanent, and the pain that we experience now pales in comparison to the glory that we, that will be revealed- But that doesn't mean this isn't real.

Svea: Mm-hmm.

Rick: We have to face it. We have to grieve it. We have to be honest, but not hopeless.

And then the second thing is what you do matters. So, like, if people come to if they show up, they come to a leadership training, right? The leadership that you're investing in, it matters. Mm-hmm. If you are a, if you are a nurse if you are a person who works at the reception desk to get people processed so they can get back to the medical professional, what you do, it matters.

It, it, it's important. If you, if you're a stay-at-home parent, that matters. If you're a, a, a kindergarten teacher, that matters. If you're coaching a, a, a Little League sports team, it, all of it matters. When you pause, instead of, pulling into your driveway and closing the garage door before you get out of the car and going into your house, but instead choose to walk out to make it easy for your neighbor to say hi, and you connect with- Mm-hmm

you spend some time together, and you cultivate a little bit more trust and relationship and goodness, all of that matters. Mm-hmm. When you serve in kids ministry, when you quietly serve in one of our, uh, ministry partnerships in town, like maybe with Next Chapter, maybe you're dropping off groceries there, all of that is it matters.

So be encouraged. There's, there is, none of this is the non-important stuff. It's all important stuff. Mm-hmm. Because it's important to the King, who says He's coming to restore all of this. And then the third thing is we should take eternity seriously. The bad news is, is that we will all be judged. The good news is is that we get to choose.

Are we gonna be judged based on what we do or what Jesus has done for us? Mm-hmm. And listen, I, I'm just, I'm throwing myself on the mercy of Jesus.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Rick: I'm with Him.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: I do not wanna stand in front of God based on my own merits, not even on my best day.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: And so everybody lives forever somewhere.

You're either gonna be with the King in His kingdom, or you're gonna be outside looking in. You're gonna be forever cut off in what Revelation 21 calls the second death. I wanna be in, and I want you to be in. And so don't be casual about whether or not you're gonna choose to follow Jesus. I would say turn and trust and follow Jesus.

Mm-hmm. And be serious about how you live that out in front of other people, and share it in front of other people so that God can use you to help other people step into the Kingdom as well.

That's what I think we oughta do with this.

Svea: Nice. Well, I'm sad that we've come to the end of the end. Yeah. I really enjoyed this series.

I'm glad that we were able to, to fit this in, and-

Rick: Well, church isn't done. We're still gonna have services.

Svea: Well, not only that-

Rick: I'm still writing sermons.

Svea: I know. This weekend we've got, uh, Vision Sunday. That's right. And you've got a special message coming up- That's right ... for that. Mm-hmm. And then in the fall w- or we're moving into a series that I am extraordinarily excited for, one that you and I put a lot of work into.

There's a lot of

Rick: work that's gone into this one.

Svea: Yeah. Yeah. This has been about a year in the works- Yeah ... of developing- Mm-hmm ... uh, this framework, and I th- I just believe it's gonna be so helpful for people as they seek to understand their faith and the spiritual journey. So, so I'm sad that this series is done, but I can't wait for some of the things that we've got planned coming up.

But glad to have this chance to sit down and talk with you about this series, and look forward to great conversations on the future things coming ahead.