Church is Messy

Church Is Messy, 04-15-2026 Ep140
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Svea: welcome back Rick. We get another episode of Church's Messy after a two week break. It's good to be

Rick: back. It is good to be back. I don't know if I can say, yeah, I'm super excited about this episode, but, uh,

Svea: well just when we hit some nice smooth sailing with First Corinthians, we're back into the choppy stuff here.

Rick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Svea: For anyone who hasn't, clued in yet mm-hmm. Uh, we've jumped back in First Corinthians back to chapter six. Mm-hmm. After walking all the way up to chapter 15, do you wanna just give a little bit of a, a thought process behind that of why we've taken the book a little bit out of sequence?

Rick: First Corinthians covers quite a bit of material, and it all needs to be understood within the whole, but there are a number of sections that I don't think they have to be understood in chronological order. We actually began the series by looking at chapter 15, which is almost at the end.

It goes to 16 chapters. Then we jump back to chapter one and made our way through. Then we jumped back ahead, starting with chapter 11, and went to, chapter 15 again for Easter. Now we're back in six. It's just we're trying to take that more of in a systematic order than a chronological order.

And the way that one Corinthians is written, it allows for that.

Svea: Before we move forward with this week's material, can I just say Easter morning when you read chapter 15 was one of the best moments of that service? It was, it just gave me chills.

Rick: It was fun to be a part of. Um, I'm, that is a medley of verses from. First Corinthians, uh, that actually Pastor Caleb put together and uh, yeah,

Svea: I found this out after the fact.

Yeah. 'cause it, okay, so this drove me nuts. Yeah. I was trying to follow along in my Bible.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: And I'm following along peacefully and then all of a sudden the words changed and I was like, oh, well he must be in a different translation. So I went from NIV and I thought it kind of sounds like new living.

Yeah. And I jumped in new living.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: And it worked for a couple verses and then, and then it was driving me nuts. Oh, yeah. And, and so I, yeah. I was talking to Caleb and he told me about how that you guys had put together Yeah. A compilation of translations to, it's just Yeah. To make it readable. Yeah. And, and accessible and, and great language.

But it worked. 'cause I just thought found that to be highly, I'm so glad, powerful and impactful to just hear those scriptures read on Easter morning.

Rick: Oh, that's good stuff.

Svea: Yeah. Yeah. Really

Rick: this week. This week, uh, a little bit different Yeah. Than Easter Sunday. Paul is addressing, uh, the issue of sexuality in the church at, at Corinth, and they're off the rails so to speak.

They've got some slogans that they're living by, that are antithetical to the gospel. Mm-hmm. And not, and really antithetical to their own health and wellbeing. And they've got some people who are, it appears to be going to see prostitutes That's just. It's normal enough in the church at Corinth that Paul had to say, you gotta sit down and talk about this.

Svea: Well, I was doing a little bit of reading on this. Yeah. And apparently it was so normal, it was considered behavior that was called to Corinthian eyes something. If you went to, to visit a prostitute you know, Corinth was a harbor city on kind of major thorough affairs and, and just brings about some of the activity that happens when people are traveling and Sure. Maybe isolated from Sure. From public eye and have a little bit of, of privacy and maybe some money in their pocket.

Rick: Oh yeah. Sailors get off a ship. Yeah. And they're ready to recreate. And so that happened, and I think you're doing a great job of talking about this in a family friendly way.

Good jobs fan. And so that was a normal part of Corinthian culture. And if you grew up in that culture, you didn't second guess it. It's kinda like, you know, what's the expression? Does a, does a fish know it's wet? It's you're just in an environment. Used to it. You don't even question it. You may not even be aware of it.

Yeah. Uh, we can look back at moments in, uh, in, in history and you're like, oh, how could people have lived that way? How could they have made that choice? How could they have been for that? How come they didn't stand up against this, against this injustice? It's that they were people of their times and they weren't utterly wrong about everything, but there are some things because of their proximity to it, they gave a pass to it or they, they didn't see with the same clarity that we do.

And people who come after us, they'll. They'll have the same thoughts about us. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So we look back on what's going on in the church in Corinth, we're like, how in the world? Well, if we lived in Corinth, we might have acted in the same way. Sure. That they would, not me. I mean, not only You might have, but,

Svea: well, you know, and another thing I was reading, I'm just not even gonna go there.

Rick: I'm trying to bait you Smith.

Svea: I know, I, I, I can tell you'll get me at some point, I'm sure. I was also reading how Greek philosophy of the day mm-hmm. Put such a high priority on the spiritual life Yes. And on the soul. Mm-hmm. But they considered the body to be just completely disposable.

Rick: That's right.

Svea: And, you know, and the body was just something to use and appetites to be satisfied.

Rick: And eventually that would,

Svea: but they, they didn't attach any kind of a moral framework mm-hmm. To how they cared for their body.

Rick: That's right. And so this would kind of go in a couple of different directions and we can see you a couple of different, or more than a, a handful of ways that it would express itself in a very unhealthy way in church. And one way is it would cause people to deny the physical resurrection of Jesus, because that Greek philosophy downplayed the importance of the physical resurrection. And so we see in one Corinthians, especially chapter 15, Paul is hammering the literal physical, historical resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

Sometimes it would result in people they're just living in. In a way with no moral restraint whatsoever. 'cause it's just the body and it doesn't matter. And then sometimes it would cost people to try to over discipline and even self harm. Because they saw the body as, as a negative thing. It's just, it's a wild how that mm-hmm.

Way of thinking really led to all kinds of unhelpful behaviors.

Svea: Sure.

And yet, even though we may, in our culture not have the exact same issues mm-hmm. And this. Same ways of thinking. Mm-hmm. We have our own distorted issues. Yeah. We do. And distorted ways of thinking. Yeah. We do that still have a, a huge impact on our sexuality and the underlying message that Paul was trying to communicate to this church mm-hmm.

That all of scripture is trying to communicate about a biblical view of sexuality. Mm-hmm. Remains as good for us today as it did for the people that originally received the Bible.

Rick: Absolutely.

Svea: So I thought we could do a couple of things. I've got a couple things from the sermon that I would love to hear you elaborate on a little bit more.

Mm-hmm. But also, maybe before we do that, just look a little bit at sexuality throughout the Bible. Okay. 'cause in some places we get a lot of clear instruction. And in other places it might even look like the Bible's kind of playing fast and loose with sexuality.

Rick: You know, that's a, an exact. Phrase that someone used with me in the, in the lobby.

Help me understand this. 'cause sometimes I read the Old Testament, it seems like it's, he said, playing fast and loose with us. I said, okay. All right. We'll talk about that this week.

Svea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, the Old Testament is not where I would send my children for lessons

Rick: really,

Svea: on how to I mean, just take a Bible character like David with his multiple wives

Rick: and, oh, bad example.

Svea: Yeah. Well,

Rick: he's a he, he's an example. An example of what not to do.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: Yeah. And so this is where our friend Tim Mackie over at the Bible Project I think is really, really helpful. And he just says, listen, it's, it's, it's a story. It's not an instruction manual. Like if you're wanting to read the Bible like it is, uh, an instruction manual for how to put something together that you bought an ikea, it is gonna disappoint you because it is not like that, it's not organized like that.

It doesn't communicate profound truths to us in that way. The majority of times it's communicating through stories and how this one thing relates to that thing over there, and you've got to slow down and you've gotta think about it over a long period. Over a long period of time. So here's a great example.

Polygamy. Uh, polygamy is not at all endorsed in the Old Testament, but it is woven in. New Testament again and again, excuse me, the Old Testament again and again and again, and yet every example of it is always a bad example with a bad outcome. If you read it seriously, you go, oh man, I would.

I don't wanna do that.

Svea: Mm-hmm.

Rick: I do not want, I don't want that outcome. How do I avoid that outcome? Don't live that lifestyle. Yeah. Don't practice polygamy.

Svea: Well, and I think it's an important reminder. Mm-hmm. And you've said this even within this series mm-hmm. That we have to be cautious not to read everything in the Bible as prescriptive.

Rick: That's right.

Svea: But it can be descriptive Yes. Of what was actually happening. And I actually find that even more encouraging. Mm-hmm. Because it shows that. The, the both God. Mm-hmm. And the authors that penned the words that we read as scripture now were engaged in the culture of their day. They weren't, you know, detached and removed and just That's right.

Spouting off. You know, religious philosophy or poetry or something like that. It

Rick: wasn't abstract idealism.

Svea: No. They were, they were deeply down in the weeds of what was happening in their day and in their culture and in their society. Mm-hmm. And speaking to that,

Rick: yes. Yes. And so one of the reasons that you read the Old Testament, it feels like it's playing fast and loose, is because it's just like you just said, it's honest engagement with the reality of what's going on, and yet trying to draw people into something better.

So in the beginning we see what is this supposed to be? One man and one woman together. This is why a man will leave his family and clinging to his wife, one man and one woman together in a covenant together for life until death. Do they part? So that is the ideal. And it quickly unravels, it unravels on the second page.

Mm-hmm. Like it's just gone on the on, on the, on the second page. And so. God meets us in that and provides a rescue plan. And that is the narrative of all of scripture ultimately pointing to Christ. And in him, we see exactly what our heavenly Father is like, and we see the life that we are intended, intended for.

And so that is, so we look to him and we are, we're pursuing that. And the, but there's all kinds of junk in the Old Testament, uh, and the Old Testament, there's case law, I mean recognizing, alright, this is what it's supposed to be, and yet what. What happens when someone is a polygamist and they encounter this situation?

What do you do then? Mm-hmm. Well, there's examples for that. There's instruction on that, but there's not encouragement to

Svea: mm-hmm.

Rick: Engage

Svea: in polygamy. Mm-hmm. I think, you know, I don't wanna blow by too quickly. Mm-hmm. That right on the first page, you know, essentially.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: Uh, God is giving a vision mm-hmm.

For our sexuality. That's very, very good.

Rick: Very good.

Svea: And, uh, it there in the Alpha retreat. Mm-hmm. We watched a couple of videos just this last weekend when we had the retreat and there's this great section in one of the videos where they're talking about sexuality. Mm-hmm. And the, the pastor leading the video said.

God's the one who created sex. Yeah. And he didn't just do it for procreation purposes. That's, he's right. He had good plans for sexuality. It's not like he's up there in heaven with his head over his, his hands over his eyes going, oh no, what are they doing now?

Rick: Yeah. Yeah. So, listen, I'm not gonna read this right now on, on the podcast.

I don't even think I've ever read it in a sermon. And it would be, it would take a lot for me to, but read Proverbs chapter five. Um, read Proverbs chapter five. God wants you to have a blast. In your marriage and just a read song of Solomon, it's a, it's a celebration of marital love. All of that God is for it.

It, it, it serves, um, practical and, uh, procreative and just pleasure purposes, all of those. So, just know that that's God's attitude.

Svea: And really it's, yeah. It's ultimately, I think it's the most romantic view mm-hmm. View of sex ever.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: That it's a gift to be enjoyed with one person

In complete security.

Rick: Yep.

Svea: In. Over decades of knowing that person and enjoying mm-hmm. And struggling through all kinds of things. And, um, I mean, it's just, it's so much more, it's a higher view. And even a more romantic view

Rick: I think so

Svea: than what Hollywood tries to sell us on.

Rick: I think so. Yeah.

Svea: Yeah. So that was God's design.

Mm-hmm. We managed to mess it up. Mm-hmm. In all kinds of ways. Um, you talked about a couple of examples that we see in the Old Testament where things have gone wrong. Mm-hmm. By the time we get to the New Testament, maybe we are seeing a little bit more instruction on. How to orient ourselves so that we don't cause ourselves the kind of pain and destruction that we see.

Rick: Oh, sure. I can understand. If someone say, it would say, it feels like the Ulta isn't as clear or straightforward as I want it to be on the, in a sexual ethic. And what the ideal is, I would say might be because of how you're reading it and how you want the Bible to function. And the way it's put together is a bit, is a bit different from that.

The, the ideal is held up from the very beginning. The best stories are stories that, uh, exemplify that tragic stories are all the stories that, that take a totally different route. But as you read through the prophets, you will, you will find that, that, um. That what is held up and esteemed is one man and one woman for life.

And that whenever Israel is rebelling, um, or they're disobeying God, it's always likened to a lack of faithfulness and infidelity and playing the role of a prostitute or an, or an or an adulterous person. And so that should inform our view too. And so if someone were to ask me, Rick, I, there's this, I haven't read a verse that talks about living together versus not living together.

Yeah. And why would that be a problem? You're right. That's not in there. And if you're trying to. Get the Bible to communicate to you like an instruction manual. That's not what it's gonna do. And there is not that verse in there, but it does hold up one man and one woman, uh, together in the bonded marriage for life.

And I won't say that they did not have it in view that it was possible for people to live together. 'cause clearly people did Jesus hanging out at the well, trying to share the gospel with this lady, the first person who he ever told that he was the promised Messiah. She was living with someone, so it was on their radar.

They were, they were aware of that, but that's never what's held up. What is held up is one man and one woman in the covenant of marriage for life. And that's the ideal. And that's what we, that's what we pursue. All the other different options and permutations and different routes that people can take.

They're not all highlighted and spoken to directly, but that is, that is what we are pointed towards.

Svea: So shifting gears mm-hmm. Just a little bit back to the, the message. Mm-hmm. I thought it was really important that you more or less mm-hmm. Opened with that idea that how we're introduced to sex often def, um, often becomes how we define it.

Rick: Yes.

Svea: And how just that. Those initial exposures are so foundational mm-hmm. To just the comfort level we have in talking about sex. Mm-hmm. The comfort level that we have mm-hmm. In exploring our own sexuality. Mm-hmm. And what that means as a follower of Jesus. Um. Funny story that kind of, not funny in the moment, but, uh, I had the opportunity to take a mm-hmm.

Gender and sexuality class as part of my doctorate coursework. Okay. Um, and the professor is this amazing, amazing psychologist who leads the Sexuality and Gender Institute at Wheaton College. We got into the classroom very first morning of the first class, there was a cohort of, uh, about 15 pastors.

Mm-hmm. And him, and he said, okay, well I do wanna get to know all of you guys, and so we're gonna go around and introduce each other. But the icebreaker question that I would like to start with is, how did you learn about sex? And give me about a. Three minute snapshot of your sexual history

Rick: go, whoa. And you paid to take that class.

Svea: I mean, it was the most provocative icebreaker question. Wow. That ice not just melted, but Yeah. You know, turned to steam.

Rick: Right. What do you think the, what do you think the purpose was?

Svea: It was ingenious. 'Cause as we were going into talking. About all of these different issues and, and what the Bible has to say about gender and sexuality.

He just wanted to just remove the barriers to talking right away, and also to recognize that we have to be, especially as pastors mm-hmm. Ready to speak with people. About the issues that they're facing mm-hmm. In their sexuality. And so we need to just get over the squeamishness about it and be willing to share that in an appropriate setting when that's warranted ourselves.

And, uh, so it was a very powerful experience.

Rick: I'm not gonna ask you to be specific, I'm not even gonna ask you to, to share what you said in that moment. But looking back, do you feel like you rose to the occasion or did you have to wrestle through feelings of discomfort when it. It was

Svea: your, fortunately I was in about the, maybe the third section that have to go.

Uh, so there were a lot of people that got through their nervous laughter.

Rick: Poor person that had to go first. Yeah.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: You know what? Okay. I like the nervous laughter. I told when, whenever we had these conversations with my kids, I'm like, some of these things are gonna sound funny and you're allowed to laugh.

But let's just laugh about it. Sure. And so just doing our best to, uh, Heather and I, doing our best to remove the stigma of it. And so we wanted them to feel as comfortable as possible. Like, this wasn't something wrong. Yeah. To talk about.

Svea: Yeah. But I, and I guess why that memory came to mind mm-hmm.

Um, was how much it came out as we were all sharing mm-hmm. How we learned about sex.

Rick: Hmm.

Svea: In that, what you said is so true. How we're introduced to it often becomes how we define it. Oh,

Rick: sure.

Svea: Yeah. And the difference that, uh, that having a, a healthy introduction mm-hmm. Or an aberrant introduction Yeah. Has.

Rick: And what I, what I really wanted people to grab a hold of and, and I think some people probably really needed to hear this, is you didn't introduce you.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: It was somebody else did that.

Svea: Yeah. You didn't get to choose that.

Rick: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Svea: Yeah. I think it was important in that context to. Affirm that the heart of this message was not to rise.

Shame, Nope. Or any feelings of guilt.

Rick: Mm-hmm. That's right.

Svea: You know, there, for, for all of us, we all have an opportunity mm-hmm. To decide this is how I'm going to live my life from today forward.

Rick: That's right. And that's what I wanted people to hear. You, you were, and we use the term algorithm that's become such a, a popular term now and I think it communicates a lot.

All of the messaging, all of the stories, all of the imagery, all of. All of the stuff that informs you didn't choose that. I didn't choose that we were born, we were born into that, but at some point we get to decide, am I staying in that or am I choosing something else that's framing how I think about it, how I see myself, how I see others, and, and I just love that, that Jesus gives us that in his grace.

Mm-hmm. That he, he gives us, he gives us a new way to be human. Mm-hmm. A better way to be human.

Svea: I think he often gives us more grace than we give ourselves.

Rick: Oh sure. Yeah.

Svea: Yeah. And I think that is an important thing for us to remember. Mm-hmm. That when we've asked for forgiveness for anything that we regret in our past.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: He gives that forgiveness freely. Yeah. And he's moved on.

Rick: And I, I know that this might sound a bit, um. Hypocritical, I don't know if that's the right word. Contradictory or crunchy or, or tension laid in for us to say, listen, I'm not, there's no shame today. I'm not, I'm not condemning you. But if, if you say you are a follower Jesus, and you're taking this path where you're living together, sexual active, we don't, we don't participate in doing those weddings with you and that people, how is that not condemning well?

I'm not, I'm not saying you're bad. I'm not putting you down. What I'm saying is what I will participate in and what I wanna participate in and what I want to join you in are things that are faithful to Jesus. Don't expect anybody to be perfect, but the intent is, Jesus, I'm, I'm trying to follow you, but if someone says, well.

Here's a profoundly important area of my life, and I'm just not gonna follow the area of Jesus. Well, I will respect that, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna condemn you, but I won't join in that. Mm-hmm. And that's where our church is coming from. And I know that that's personal and I know that there might be some pain that comes with that, but the intent is not to.

Is not to be hurtful.

Svea: I really like the question that you've often used in that context of what does it really mean to follow Jesus in this aspect of your life.

Rick: Absolutely.

Svea: And I think just asking some of those questions can pull out mm-hmm. You know, what are your values? Mm-hmm. What are your priorities and why are you arriving at the decisions that you're making?

Rick: I, there's one guy I remember, I, I, I took him out to lunch and I just said, oh, listen. I love you. You know that we're friends and I always want you. I I I never want to be that friend where you don't know that you have to wonder where you stand with me. But here's a question. I know that you, you love Jesus.

You're following him and, and you're, you're living with your girlfriend. What, what does it look like to follow Jesus with this area of your life? And he's like, yeah, I've been thinking about this. They, they got married and you know what? This guy was in my small group. And I ended up eventually just handing the small group over to him and his and his wife, and it just.

It blew. That small group is still growing strong Hmm. Many years later, like seven or eight years later. Nice. And it's just a story of, yeah, it's not a scarlet letter and the story's not over, and this doesn't define you, but you had a, you had an intersection moment where you're like, you know what, it's clear and yes, I do wanna follow Jesus, and I'm moving forward with that.

Mm-hmm. I love that.

Svea: Mm-hmm.

Rick: And it's, it doesn't limit the kind of stuff that God would wanna do with and in and through you. Yeah.

Svea: Yeah. If we go back now, shifting gears again. Mm-hmm. Back to the passage. Okay. In one Corinthians six, again here, the application for us might not feel the same as it would for the Corinthian church.

I don't think we have a widespread problem with prostitution. The

Rick: application is the same. Don't go to one. It's, that's just as true for us as it was for them. So

Svea: That's true. It's still relevant. It might not be as, as, uh, front of center Yeah. As it was for them. But the underlying message, the underlying application is as relevant as ever.

Mm-hmm. With this idea that. The way that we treat our bodies mm-hmm. Is an expression mm-hmm. Of our faith.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: And of our spirituality. And we can't separate that we are truly embodied souls. Mm-hmm.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: Yeah. Um,

Rick: that's right.

Svea: You know, and, and I think the

Rick: Jesus draw or, or Paul and also Jesus 'cause he's inspiring this, but Paul draws, this blows my mind a straight line from the resurrection.

It's what we do with our bodies.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: And for so much, so many years growing up we were like, this is why you shouldn't smoke. Or this is why, you know, you should be careful about what you eat. And listen, those are, there are wisdom issues related to that, but that's not what that's about. It's about our moral choices and whether or not what we are doing with our body.

Honors, honors our king and is in line with the fact that the Holy Spirit. And dwells us that we are living, breathing, walking around, talking temples

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: Of God.

Svea: Yeah. I was in a conversation with someone last night mm-hmm. About the sermon and, and this passage, and she was talking about how this idea that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, if you read the Old Testament and the way that God regarded, like in the Holy of Holies mm-hmm.

And how there was so much reverence. Mm-hmm. For the temple, especially the place where God was dwelling right there. Mm-hmm. It kind of blows my mind to imagine that God regards my body with that kind of reverence.

Rick: Yeah. Yeah.

Svea: And then of course I should too.

Rick: Yeah. Yeah. And so the, it isn't. That, uh, a gospel defined view of your body and sexuality is low.

I, i is, is too, is too low. Our problem is, is we are not seeing it as high enough.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: That God's view is incredibly high. And too often, like if you're living or you're thinking according to the sexual algorithm of American culture, you're gonna see it as far too low.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: And God's calling us to see it as much higher and much more sacred.

And much more beautiful and much, much more rich than any messaging in our culture ever will.

Svea: Well, I think we do need to be really careful with that because our culture is mm-hmm. Discipling us. Yes. Our culture Yes. Is trying to teach us to be a disciple is basically to be a learner.

Rick: Yeah.

Svea: And our culture is trying to be the teacher to,

Rick: you are learning from the media that you ingest, you are learning from the stories that you hear, you are learning by, from all of the influence and not.

We never get to a place where you're like, well, that doesn't affect me. It affects you.

Svea: Mm-hmm.

Rick: It affects you. Mm-hmm. It affects all of us.

Svea: Mm-hmm. Even if it just decreased the disgust you have.

Rick: And I, and can, and I can prove it. I can prove it.

Svea: Okay.

Rick: Maybe there was a time that it was harder to prove, but now it's the easiest thing in the world to prove.

Whenever you talk to someone and they have just a, from your vantage point, a bonkers view of current events or politics or whatever, what do you immediately say? They're just in a different algorithm.

Svea: Uhhuh.

Rick: Yeah. We're all impacted by the algorithm we're in.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: And we can, we'll never be able to change that.

Svea: That's true. We seem to recognize it in that context. Mm-hmm. That's

Rick: right. It

Svea: does have applications all around.

Rick: Yeah. Yeah. And so let's be aware at the very least, whether you think I'm crazy or not, at the very least, be aware of the voices. That are speaking to you, that you trust and that you listen to and what their agenda is.

Svea: Mm-hmm.

Rick: Do they have your best interest in mind? Yeah.

Svea: Our culture is trying to teach us things. Mm-hmm. You know, when I think about just like the model of change and how people are formed

Rick: mm-hmm.

Svea: You know, habits are another really big one. Okay. And that our habits are forming us too. Yeah. And our habits in how we treat our body

Rick: mm-hmm.

Svea: Are formative not just for our physical health mm-hmm. But, but our spiritual health as well.

Rick: You know, I heard a pastor talk about this last week. I love this pastor. He's in New York City. His, his name is John Tyson. He talked about during your single years, uh, when, when you're not married, if you take this approach to your body and sexuality seriously, and you live accordingly, you are developing habits that should one day you become married mm-hmm.

Makes you the kind of person that's better suited to serve the interest to someone else above your own.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: To be a Jesus like spouse. Wow.

Svea: Yeah.

Rick: Isn't that great?

Svea: That's really good.

Rick: Yeah. You may not even realize it, but by taking this seriously and living it is forming you, you will naturally embrace habits and it's forming you to be a person who's more like Jesus.

Svea: Yeah. I do remember when that, that concept mm-hmm. Came, um, at a marriage conference that Steve and I attended once. They were talking about how. How you learned self-control in your sexuality as a single person has a massive impact on your self-control as a married person. Wow. In your sexuality. Wow.

And that there's, it's faulty thinking to think, well, once you're married, you don't have to worry about it anymore.

Rick: Red Douglas.

Svea: Yeah. I mean, the only difference between being single and being married is you've got access to one person.

Rick: You don't automatically become a totally different person just because someone else is there.

Svea: Well, yeah. And, and every other person on the planet, except for that one person is still off limits to you.

Rick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right.

Svea: Yeah. Mm-hmm. So it was, that's I think, an interesting thing to think about how the habits that we form as a single person in our sexuality have implications for the health of our, our marriage too.

Rick: Absolutely. Yeah.

Svea: Let alone the habits that we continue in our marriage. What about other physical habits, but beyond sexuality? Do you think it is fair to apply the, especially the verse about, you know, you are not your own, you're, you were bought with a price.

Rick: I wanna be careful, I wanna be careful and in my attempts to be careful, I'm going to give a very broad view and I'm not gonna offer a lot of things that are specific I might offer.

You might. You might pry a couple of specific examples outta me, but I really want to kind of zoom out. And so I want to think seriously, my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, so I should honor him with my body. And so is this honoring or not honoring? I'm just gonna adopt that. And so, uh, of course one of the, there are all kinds of reasons to not, drink too much. There's all kinds of reasons to not get drunk, but one of them is, oh, that would, that I would be dishonoring God with my body by drinking to such a way that I have lost control and I'm, I'm inebriated. That's just one, that's one example. I would not be honoring God with my body if I embraced a habit of things that has a, an obvious, a long-term detrimental impact to my health.

I just don't think that would be honoring God.

Svea: Mm-hmm.

Rick: I don't think I'd be honoring my body. I don't think I'd be honoring God. I don't, I don't think I would be treating this like a temple. Does that make sense?

Svea: Yeah. Those, so

Rick: I,

Svea: I'm hesitant to, those are good avoidance of negative examples.

Yeah. I'll even give you some, some pursuing positive examples, like

Rick: fire away,

Svea: you know, the, the beauty of practicing Sabbath. Mm. And setting aside a day of week, a day of the week to rest.

Rick: Oh

Svea: yeah. And. That it's not just all about sitting and praying.

Rick: I love that.

Svea: It can also be, I love that this is a way that I am honoring God with my body

Rick: by resting

Svea: to rest.

Rick: Oh, SPHE, I love that. I love the positive view. I love the positive view.

Svea: Yeah. I, and you know, I think that's the beauty of God's design. Mm. You know, we talked a little bit about the beauty of his design. Mm-hmm. In this wonderful romantic Yeah. Safe. You know, secure view of sexuality, but also just in how we care for our bodies.

Design is good. So in the way,

Rick: enjoying a good meal.

And good drink is honoring God with my body.

Svea: Yeah. Yeah. Sabbath feasting

Rick: Yes.

Svea: Is a lovely thing.

Rick: Yes.

Svea: Which it's not gluttony when it's something you're doing on a specific day.

Rick: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Oh my goodness.

Svea: Yeah. No, that, see, God's good.

Rick: He is good. He is so good. He's so good. Alright. I don't know, um, if there are other questions or concepts or ideas that we want to, we wanna dive into.

Svea: So there are a couple of other questions I have, but I think we'll wanna save them for next week. Okay. Because if I'm not mistaken, next week you'll be addressing a little bit more about sexuality, but more specifically about marriage.